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Commons:Categories for discussion/2025/07/Category:1880 Pioneer Square

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Category:1880 Pioneer Square

[edit]

Also:

As already remarked in CfDs for Category:1865 Pioneer Square and Category:1914 Pioneer Square : at the very least, badly named, but I see no reason these categories should exist. We do not need to sort Seatle materials down to a particular neighborhood in a particular year, and some of these contents don't even line up well on the year, or they are views showing multiple neighborhoods. Upmerge to Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington and the category for Seattle in the appropriate year. Jmabel ! talk 19:40, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Questions:
  1. No reason these categories should exist?  No reason that they have to exist, the reason to exist is to reduce the number of unsorted images from the primary category and make the file easier to use.
  2. A particular neighborhood in a particular year? We don’t need to split particular neighborhood. There ten others (four with significant issues) neighborhood categories where the volume of images necessitates some form of grouping. Users currently have multiple pages that require scrolling through thumbnail images.  If Wikimedia is simply a storehouse of images, this is fine.  If it’s meant to be used to support Wikipedia and other information sharing projects, then it needs to be organized for easier use.  I wouldn’t recommend every neighborhood being parsed into years, but the Category:Seattle by year was created to manage what? Large number of images?  Interest in a specific year in Seattle?  Some other need?  This category would appear to fit whatever logic created those categories.
  3. Some of these contents don't even line up well on the year?  Agreed, they don’t.  Multiple dates in the file name and conflicting dates in the description and even an occasional image category for a different year.  As a contributor based system, we’re stuck with the information provided by the source.  Thus, it would be appropriate for multiple dated categories; The example below could have three dated categories from the provided text and then the BOT or contributor added a Category:1913 in Seattle.  Don’t think it’s the editor’s job to determine the correct year, only a trained historian of local history.  (Comment: since none of the editors have been credentialed as ‘historians’, ‘architects’, etc. none of us should be changing dates of other people contributions without detailed explanation of evidence.)
Example: 
  • Title: File:Railroad Ave, looking north from Washington St, 1910 or shortly after (SEATTLE 3086).jpg
  • Text: 1910 is the earliest possible date, since it shows the tower of Grand Trunk Pacific Dock at left (built that year, and burned in 1914, so this puts a pretty narrow range on this). At upper right, an extension to {{w|The Bon Marché}} visible here was completed 1911, so unless that was still incomplete at the time of this photo the date is probably slightly after 1910.
  • Date: {{circa|1911}} {{other date|after|1910}}
  • [[Category:1910 Pioneer Square]]
  • [[Category:1913 in Seattle]]
  1. There are views showing multiple neighborhoods.  Yes, they do. I’m not a Seattle historian and don’t know which areas are in which neighborhoods, but the files in questions have already been identified as Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington.  My task was not to move images into or out of this category, but to take existing images already in the category and create usable subcategories.  It would be another contributor’s task to go image by image and added appropriate categories for other neighborhoods.  Thus, this is not an issue for this discussion.  It would be an issue for a discussion of criteria for adding or removing neighborhood categories.   Chris Light (talk) 19:30, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
== Issue found ==
The Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Washington (state) included Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington, and Pioneer Square - Skid Road Historic District contributing properties. Not wishing to tackle that issue I moved on to the 990 images under the Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington. So, instead of tackling the misdirection of the link in the Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Washington (state) I choose to tackle the 990 images in the Pioneer Square category.
  1. Per reference: Commons:Categories this is either an over-categorization of individual files or an Improper categorization. Checking the images, most are categorized in numerous categories. Example: File:1st Ave. S. north from S. Main St., 1880 - DPLA - 03d09e19391ccfc113c1dc57b54f1e1b.jpg, although the list below is using the Category:1880 Pioneer Square after I replaced Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington.
  2. Since these files are already identified in a Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington change to a sub-category of this category should be an easy linkage.
  3. How? A. Should each image also be categories with each city community visible? B. Verify each structure and street shown? C. This was not my intent. Instead, it was to eliminate a direct link to Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington, reducing the list of images as per the Commons:Categories guidance calls: Improper categorization of categories is a cause of over-categorization.
  4. In the primary category there were buildings and places by name. No streets nor years.
  5. The category included several images with ‘after the Great Fire’ in the title. Of the 200 images processed before the discussion started, most were the removal of the link to Pioneer Square and the linking the Category:Great Seattle Fire into the Category:1889 Pioneer Square, which is then a subcategory of Category:Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington. Only 83 images went only into a dated category, about 130 were rendered into the Category:Great Seattle Fire.
  6. Remaining Images to deal with would be 870+
Chris Light (talk) 19:49, 12 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved by consensus, moving to Category:1880 in Pioneer Square, Seattle, Washington, etc. - Jmabel ! talk 02:13, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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